Éva Goicochea
Éva
Goicochea
is redefining your relationship with sex
〰️
CARIANN: So tell me a little bit about you, personally. Where'd you grow up?
ÉVA GOICOCHEA: I grew up in New Mexico — I am a sixth-generation New Mexican. I was born there and lived there until I was 8 until my mom remarried, and we moved to Sacramento. When I thought of California, I thought of 90210, so I remember thinking we were moving to Beverly Hills or LA or something. Sacramento is not that. My life until I was 19 — when I finally moved to New York for the first time — was literally like “Lady Bird.” I went to Catholic high school, spent time in East Sacramento and in and actually even knew Greta Gerwig in elementary school.
C: That’s so cool.
E: It’s just like that. It's this charming place, but a little bit…provincial at times.
C: So how long have you been doing maude?
E: I’ve been working on maude since 2015. The quick version of the story is that I started a watch company with a couple of people. At some point one day the discussion of ‘how come there's no sexual wellness company that's modern?’ came up and I thought it was a great idea. In my early twenties I was a legislative aid in healthcare, but I went back into marketing and ended up at Everlane. And I think all of that sort of converged into me being like, this is a great idea — this is what I want to work on.
The rest of the team wasn’t interested. I told them okay, well, I'm going to run with the idea and build the company.
In 2017, I raised money, got the company off the ground and then went to market in 2018.
C: Do you guys have a relationship with other sexual wellness companies? Maybe not. I just wonder what that looks like.
E: We all know each other, but we’re all very different brands. Many of the newer ones focus on a young, female audience that's already kind of comfortable with sex. We're really trying to be that company that enables everyone — young, old, gay, straight, other — to feel like they have a place. maude is modern intimacy — for all people.
C: That’s really important.
E: Yeah. We want to change the mind of the 50-year-old aunt in Kansas.
C: I think that's really important work.
E: It is really. We fundamentally exist not to change the lives of the people who are already comfortable with sex but to change the conversation and allow for people to feel comfortable with it no matter who they are. Also, I'm a bit older than other founders in sexual wellness, and am always reminded that being over 30 sometimes feel old in this industry, especially in terms of how it’s been marketed for so long. Then I think about our audience who is 40, 50, 60. They haven’t been spoken to — ever.
C: Yeah. I think that's pretty apparent, too, just because I think that some sexual wellness companies — at least modern ones — are very millennial pink and marketing towards younger women.
E: And there's a place for that. I mean, absolutely. I think everyone should have a choice. But that's the whole point of why there should be more companies in this space — there aren't many choices. For instance, we don't even call our vibrators a toy. I think that calling them toys diminishes the function and purpose. I think it is a bit demeaning to women in a lot of ways. It's a tool, and it's a tool that is needed by 70% of the female population.
C: For sure.
"We fundamentally exist not to change the lives of the people who are already comfortable with sex, but to change the conversation and allow for people to feel comfortable with it no matter who they are."
E: Of course, we're not taking ourselves that seriously, but I think the point is that it should just be in your kit like anything else.
C: Yeah. I was in a pretty serious relationship a bit ago, and I'm really young. I'm only 24.
E: You’re doing incredible things.
C: Thanks. That really means a lot to me. Also, I live in the south, and I grew up in the south, which I feel sets a lot of people back about five, 10 years, just in terms of everything, socioeconomic, everything. But I went to a really hyper-conservative, Christian college. I was in a pretty serious relationship. When I bought my first vibrator, I was in a relationship, and I felt shamed for it. My partner took it personally and often I felt guilty for even talking about it, let alone buying one and thinking it could be good for our relationship. So I'm sure you've gotten a lot of stories like that. What's that been like — having the idea but then seeing it come to life and having people flood you with stories that you maybe didn't expect to take space for?
E: Well, I think the main one is when we first were starting maude, this question came up of ‘what do you not like about the industry or what exists out there?’ And a lot of the feedback was that it's really explicit; it's really phallic. And then that obviously creates this tension. So the reason why the vibe is gray, the reason why it's just a vibrator and we don't consider it an insertion device — you can do whatever you want with it, but we really made it to be an external device — was for that purpose.
Starting from when you're young, as a woman, if you're not able to explore your own body…I was just talking to some women, and they were saying, ‘how are you supposed to understand consent and what you're comfortable with?’ It sort of starts there, right? Because if you have not been able to learn your body, you don't know what you're comfortable with. And then it gets really tricky. Then you go into relationships, and if you haven't had the experience or you're getting shamed for it, I think it creates more layers of guilt and confusion.
So that was why we wanted it to be that way, was to hopefully be a point of discussion that felt really safe and comfortable. And then we have people who are like, "I literally use the vibe every time I have sex, and my partner is now thrilled because they're seeing that I'm enjoying myself as much as they are."
I have some friends that are very, very conservative. They lost their virginity to each other when they got married, and they were in their early thirties. And now their joke is, "Did you remember maude?" They call their vibe 'maude.' When they go on vacation they're like, "Did you bring maude? Did you bring maude's cord?" They're actually investors, and they're incredible.
C: I think that's amazing. That's pretty progressive.
E: It’s really progressive. And they're telling all of their friends. I'm so excited for them. Though I’m not conservative, I wasn't sexually active very young, and I didn't get a vibrator until I was 23. I didn't know anything about anything. Now, I've been married 10 years and I still wrestle with all of these things. I cannot imagine to be 30 and…in a way, it's actually kind of amazing, because if you think about it, they started off with that in their relationship not knowing much differently. So what could they teach everyone? You’re coming in with no pretense. He doesn't have any issues of feeling less-than because he hasn't had sex before. It's kind of incredible.
C: Yeah. That is incredible. I come from a place at least in college…well, I grew up in a Catholic church, which was actually very open. I don't know how much you know about Christianity, but I didn't know much about—
E: Well, I went to Catholic high school, but I'm not religious.
C: I’m not religious anymore, but I grew up in a Catholic church. Then I went to a really conservative Protestant college. The idea was that a lot of the young, Christian, married women are like, ‘you have to serve your husband. If you don't want to have sex but he does, that is just you being a good wife and you being a servant.’ It sounds so fucking crazy to me now. And looking back, I genuinely feel like I was in a cult. It is so crazy the things that I've unpacked in therapy. I was actually assaulted in college by a fellow student, which is why I started this brand. It was almost worse reporting the assault to the university and the way I was treated, which happens at so many places. I understand that it’s not an original idea, what happened to me.
But I went forward with two other women who I felt hated me because we were all punished for reporting. To begin with, the other girls’ idea was like ‘I put myself in this situation, so what happened to me was partially my fault,’ which I hope everyone knows isn't true. So I think I just still have so much to learn and personally dig through when it comes to sexuality.
E: Part of what makes our company amazing is that everyone has come from different places. Our Art Director is from Montreal and has a healthy sensibility around sex. Our Director of Product is from Kentucky. His family is like, ‘you're working for who?’ [Laughs] Actually, they're really okay with it now. Our Ops Manager came from a conservative family in Michigan. Our Social Media Manager came from Florida. So everyone brings something to the table, some of which is previous shame around the subject which, if not dealt with, could have compounded.
C: Yeah. It's nice to know that it's not easy for everyone. I think I'm very hard on myself.
E: You shouldn't be hard on yourself. And you should also remember that it is such a gradient how we feel. Not only is it ever-changing how we feel about sex and ourselves, but we're also then being bombarded with — to my point about age — messages as they relate to the life stage that we're at. You might be 50 and you’re ready to have the best sex of your life, but then realize, ‘no one makes products for me because I'm 50.’ So it's just this fascinating thing, that by the time we're ready to be free, we are still chained by societal norms and standards.
My hope is that maude is so matter of fact and friendly and easy, that people get to just sit with the idea of sex and decide what it means for them, instead of us dictating and talking to them and pandering to them. I just want it to be this brand that promotes the idea of ‘okay, this is just biology — and however I feel about this is a product of how I was raised or what I've been around, but my relationship with my own body is fundamentally biological, and it's okay.’
And the nice thing is that maybe once you can get past some of the trauma, sex, orgasming, and pleasure, taking time for yourself, taking time with your partner in a healthy relationship: it is all so intrinsically tied to happiness. I think you can maybe start to see the real upside when you're ready. Not that you don't see that now, but it will become an entirely new thing.
C: Yeah — do you feel like you've done that for people?
E: I hope so. We've had people that have written to us and said, "I've experienced sexual trauma or abuse, and maude makes me feel like it's okay to think about sex again." We've had a lot of people who are much, much older email us, call us, find my phone number. I'm not sure how they even found my phone number. [Laughs]
C: That’s so badass though.
E: I know. We had one man very early on who called us and said, "My wife and I can't really have sex because I had a stroke, and I really want to buy the vibe." And then he wrote us later and was like, "Our lives are changed." And he was in his seventies or eighties or something.
C: Oh my gosh.
E: I think that's actually why I don't align myself with other companies, because I think they carry a lot more passion for the sociopolitical climate that we're in, and they want to tie sex so much into that. Of course it relates to those things, but it's also a human thing that is part of all of us no matter what era we're in. My hope is that maude can be a company that outlasts my time.
C: That's your mission for it?
E: Yes. My goal would be for us to be — literally you look at the Wikipedia of the history of condoms or something, and it’s like, ‘and then in 2018 maude launched and it was a new chapter.’ Because it's really been the same for 100 years, and it's always been tied to sociopolitical movements, which actually then means you get further from the fundamentals of what sex is. Sex education is obviously really disparate in this country. It's all over the map. I have multiple nieces who've had kids under 20. I just found out about another one who's pregnant. We have to get it together — we have to learn how to have a relationship with sex that is so much more basic and built on health, so that we can then make better choices.
C: I don't really know how it is in other countries, but I know that the American education is fucked when it comes to sex ed. Is there anything going to change with that?
E: Well, it's a state by state issue.
C: It is? Okay, I didn’t know that!
E: So 13 states have to have medically-accurate sex ed. Something like 24 have to have sex ed. The rest don't have to have sex ed. And what you hear is like, ‘oh yeah, my PE teacher taught it to us for an hour.’
C: Yeah, that was me.
E: Meanwhile, we expect people to understand their periods and all of these other things and their hormonal changes, and it's all tied together — the hormones, and sex, and what you're eating, and how you're feeling, and how much you can pay attention in school, and what time you should actually be waking up in the morning. It's all tied together.
C: There’s just so much to talk about on the subject. It's pretty crazy. Are you guys working on any new products? Are you allowed to tell me about them?
E: Yeah. We're coming out with bath in September 2019. [editor’s note: it’s out!]
C: Like soap?
E: No, like soaks and washes. When we created the candle, it was testing out if people were making room in their lives to think about sex a little more broadly. And people love the candle — it's a massage candle. How many people are really giving massages? Who knew? You can also just burn the candle. So these products are all built around intimacy. We're coming out with a biodegradable wipe [ed: also out!]. They're all things built around sex. But you don't have to have sex and you don't have to have a partner. We're just trying to give you these really wonderful tools and products to make you feel like your sex life is more than just 10 minutes every other week.
C: That’s really cool. I'm excited. It's making sex a lot more self-care-based, which is actaully what it is, a lot of it.
E: It is. Statistically, people have more sex in hotels and on vacation than when they're at home, and it's very obvious why — you're less stressed. So for us it's tackling stress in a very simple way so that you're able to be in the head space for thinking about sex at all.
C: Yeah. Cool. Interesting. Are y'all ever going to be sold in a wider capacity?
E: Like in stores? Absolutely. 80% of people still buy in-store.
"We used to joke that we're like Saturday morning t-shirt sex. We're not Friday night bad decision sex. Saturday morning implies maybe familiarity with the partner, consent, daylight, which in and of itself is scary sometimes. But all of these things set the tone for what we're trying to show — which is happy, consensual, healthy sex."
C: Is that a difficult thing to accomplish?
E: I think it's a difficult thing to accomplish in that it's operationally a leap. You could get in a large order and if it’s cancelled, it could kill your business. So these are decisions you have to make and be ready for them financially and operationally.
C: Right.
E: However, I would say that even if a large retailer called us tomorrow, the question is do we feel like it's enough of a partnership where there's enough marketing behind it to give context to the brand. And that's the number one question we ask is, if we're going to actually roll out with a partner, will there be enough context for us? As an example, we're going into Urban Outfitters. A year ago they called us and said, "We want you to be in-store and online," but they only had beauty and tech product categories. They were like, ”Well, we don't know where to stick you because we have the vibrator that should go in tech. Or you should go in beauty." And we just didn’t think it was the right fit. They came back a year later and said, "We have sexual wellness now. We think you should be in this one." Okay, now we have more context. Now that makes sense.
C: Yeah. I think it's really cool that brands like Urban and Free People, they're branching into sexual wellness. Whether they are doing it out of a good place or whatever, I've just talked to a lot of friends and they're comfortable ordering from a place like that because the packaging is concealed — there's a lot of shame around, at least where I come from, being sexual.
E: Well, you know, I also think there's a lot of shame because we don't have enough examples of it being very everyday. We used to joke that we're like Saturday morning t-shirt sex. We're not Friday night bad decision sex. Saturday morning implies maybe familiarity with the partner, consent, daylight, which in and of itself is scary sometimes. But all of these things set the tone for what we're trying to show — which is happy, consensual, healthy sex. I feel like if there were more examples of this and if there were more companies that took that approach, it would be better for everyone. I don't think promoting an explicit taboo sex life is doing anyone any favors in places where it's an uncomfortable topic. It's just making it worse, in fact, I think.
C: Absolutely. Well, I love what y'all are doing.
E: Thank you.
C: Coming from my background and experiences with sex, that's a loaded compliment. I really do mean it.
E: Thank you so much.
C: In my friend group, maude is a household name now. And it's cool. If you pull out maude condoms on a date, you're a badass.
E: That’s amazing. Thank you.
C: It’s really great. Yeah, you're doing really good work, and I hope you're proud of it.
E: I am. It's really funny. I'm here every day. I literally live on the same street one mile down from here. It feels a little bit like a bubble in a good way and a bad way. So I always forget that there are humans out there. The other thing is I try not to be the face of maude all the time, so I don't always get the honor of hearing the feedback. So thank you.
C: One of my friends in Nashville, she got the vibe and was like, "This is the best sex I've ever had in my life and it's with myself!”
E: That’s amazing. It’s funny because one of our advisors always reminds me that they use the vibe every time they have sex — her and her husband. And I’m like, "Okay, I get it. I'm so happy for you! But you don't have to tell me every time." [Laughs]
I just want to tell you, too, you are so lucid and smart and aware at 24, and it's only going to get better. It's not going to get worse.
C: Thank you.
E: You're going to be okay.
C: Thank you. That means a lot to me.
E: Oh my god, I've had like a million jobs. If you were like, 'we're going to do an interview. Can you tell me your past jobs, all of them,’ the whole interview for an hour would just be me listing my jobs.
C: Yeah. It's been a hard couple years, and like I said, I'm really hard on myself. I think a lot of creative people are overcritical of themselves. I was unemployed for awhile last year; a lot has happened, but 2019 has been amazing and I'm trying to give myself a break.
E: I think you have to remember that there's two ways to look at the saying, "Wherever you go, there you are." One of them is to be lost internally and say, "Everywhere I go I'm carrying my crap around," or you could say, "Everywhere I go that I connect with people or the place, that is a reflection of how many facets I have," and that's the truth. You might be in Italy next month having the time of your life, and that is just as much a part of you as anything else in your life. The other thing is you don't have a sign over your head saying, ‘I made dumb decisions when I was 20.’ Only you are carrying that sign. It's your choice to decide to put it away. But nobody can read it, that’s the great thing. If you knew how many stupid things I've done leading up to this you'd be like, 'Oh, shit, I'm going to be fine.' I made so many bad decisions and expensive ones, too. But it's okay. It's okay.
C: Thanks. I just want to close with one more thing, which you kind of touched on. You might've already said this, but what do you want young, old, every person, to know about sex and about loving themselves? What's your advice there?
E: My advice is this: sex is about as human as eating, drinking, sleeping, and breathing. It changes just like your sleeping and your eating and your drinking, but hopefully not your breathing [laughs]. That is what I want them to know — that I don't think you ever arrive at something final. It's an ever-changing thing. Your sex life weans and wanes. You have great sex, and then you have no sex, and then you feel uncomfortable with your body, and then you feel comfortable in your body, and that is totally okay, and it's totally human. So long as you are making healthy choices — when I mean healthy I mean legitimately understanding how you're feeling with your body — I hope that you give yourself room to be ever-changing. That's what I think.
Because what you did in a relationship is not going to be what you do in the next relationship. It's not going to be who you are when you're 60. Otherwise, I'm not a prescriptive person when it comes to sex because I think everyone has their own stuff that they like.
C: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, and I'm really excited leaving this talk with you.
Cariann Tested and Approved
INTERVIEW AND PHOTOS BY CARIANN BRADLEY & PHOTOS PROVIDED BY MAUDE • 2020
ÉVA GOICOCHEA IS THE FOUNDER/CEO OF MAUDE, A MODERN SEXUAL WELLNESS COMPANY. 